Posts by Make Lemonade

51

BREAKING NEWS ! Finland attacks judicial committees

by raymond frantz in

the finish minister of justice has publicly attacked the practice of judicial committees in her country which are in violation with the basic rights and freedoms enjoyed from citizens in her country .read the full article here :.

finland attacks judicial committees.

please like and share article so more get to see it!.

Make Lemonade

MeanMrMustard

The abuse case I was involved in was dismissed at summary judgement. "Internal church policies and first amendment rights" was the reason. This fact alone makes what you are saying worthy of consideration. American law was originally put in place to protect freedom of worship. It is hard to get it in our heads that something as wrong as coercion is allowed by law. On top of that we all know that the information about shunning on the "official website" is misleading.

Who said life is fair. It is not.

However, when you loose according to the rules, all you have to do is win by following the rules. Speaking out to make people aware of the dangers of the Watchtower is also protected under first amendment rights. Like smoking. People choose to smoke to their own harm. If those who are about to start smoking are educated and then decide not to smoke, that is great. Those who did the educating feel better because they did what was in their power to do.

No matter what happens in Finland the exposure will be educational to the public.

We just have to do what we can do.

51

BREAKING NEWS ! Finland attacks judicial committees

by raymond frantz in

the finish minister of justice has publicly attacked the practice of judicial committees in her country which are in violation with the basic rights and freedoms enjoyed from citizens in her country .read the full article here :.

finland attacks judicial committees.

please like and share article so more get to see it!.

Make Lemonade

Vidiot is correct to point out the "coercing" that occurs to those who no longer can support the "error" of the teachings of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

One only has to read and or watch (you tube) to become familiar with this. Add the testimony in the Douglas Walsh trial about supporting error and you can see what Vidiot said is right on the money.

Also, I can tell you personally, that at this moment I know several who are going to meetings only because they have been threatened with loosing their families. Only because they want to save their wife and children. To see people I care for go thru this is my greatest source of anxiety. I can only describe the feeling, as like having a dream where you watch someone drown and you can not do anything about it. Problem is the coercion is real and happening as we speak.

If one wants to go further into research about coercion inside the "organization", read about Manuela Dormain's experience. She was the mother of an abused boy. For years her son had a behavior problem. Only by reading her son's letter to his girl friend did she find out he had a bad thing happen to him when he was young. Manuela was compelled to warn a father about the possibility that his son was also abused. The father turned out to be an elder who knew abuot Compos being an abuser. Not only was Manuela disapointed that this elder did not warn her, but the elder coerced her to not go forward with making known Compos abuse of her son.

What did Manuela do? She and her family did not allow themselves to be coerced. Watchtower settled out of court with a gag order. How much? I do not know. It is not the money. It is that someone faced the threat and came out the better for it.

Watchtower has first amendment rights. Watchtower has a substantial legal team. Watchtower has financial assets.

What Watchtower also has is a record of wrongdoing that the public needs to know about. Education of the public is perhaps the only action that means anything.

If and when something else comes up then: "here I am send me" LOL

21

New Scientist Article: God not-botherers: Religious apathy reigns

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22229671.500-god-notbotherers-religious-apathy-reigns.html#.u2je8vco7mr.

god not-botherers: religious apathy reigns.

01 may 2014across the developed world, people are losing interest in god without becoming atheists.

Make Lemonade

76

Humans have been on the earth for 6,000 years?

by make yourself in

so i just heard this today at the meeting.

honestly i've never really paid much attention too it, but i know it's out of place.

can anyone shed some factual and historical light on this subject?

Make Lemonade

make yourself: Would you elaborate on what was said at your meeting that caused you to take notice of the "6,000" years of man's existence? Was it a comment? How old was the person who commented? Etc.. Please feel free to hold back any details that would reveal to much information .

Other post here have pointed out the background of this teaching. Let me add that the Photo Drama of Creation has a slide that presents each creative day as 7,000 years long. For Watchtower writers to "come clean" that the publications have been in error before and after 1919 would shake core beliefs about the Faithful and Discreet Slave. How could "God's sole channel of comunication" be wrong about the creation of the earth, etc.?

I remember when the Catholic Church (and others) dealt with this type of contradiction between science and the Bible. Things like saying that the first 5 books of Genesis are myths and not to be taken literal. The Watchtower responded by chargeing those religions with having no respect for the Bible. In Watchtower reasoning the fact that the "slave" respected the Bible, made them the true religion. Science makes progress. Evidence builds up. The watchtower's position is forced to change.

The question is: "how long will it take for the publication to directly state that Russel, Rutherford, Knorr, Franz, G.B. were all wrong about this matter?

Recent waffling on the length of the creative days (actually from 1987 to now), I suspect is due to this subject being a threat to the F&Ds credability.

34

Feeling disloyal

by stirred but not shaken in

i've been visiting here for about a year or so, but didn't really feel compelled to participate other than reading the various posts that interested me.. there's been that uncomfortable feeling of being disloyal to god, the organization, many friends and relatives.. i've been associated since birth.

after 65 + years of service within this organization and actually enjoying that time, it troubled me to find myself wanting to express feelings that were contrary to all that time of "faithfulness".

those years were filled with progressive "privileges and responsibilities" even at a high level, and there was considerable success in our evangelizing activity.

Make Lemonade

stirred but not shaken:

Welcome, It would be great if I already know you. In the big picture we already have much in common. The path our lives have taken in the past are similar. You were born in while I was not. However it was at a young and vulnerable age that I was introduced to J.W.s. Not an excuse, but a fact that helped me to understand the question: "how could I have gotten involved in a religion that is so wrong".

Looking forward to your futher contributions.

157

WTS buys £1,000,000 luxury sea-front property in Wales, UK

by Simon in

shower room.

office.

games room.

Make Lemonade

I have started a list of people that I will share this with. I will wait until the evidence is to strong to dismiss. This kind of thing will effect their hearts. Especially the pictures included. It will just be outrageous to them. I can hardly wait.

Thanks

126

This is my first post

by Make Lemonade in

i wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.

there are resources here that are deep.

like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?

Make Lemonade

KateWild, cha ching, jgnat:

Thank you all. You put a big smile on my face. Now all day at work I will be thinking how positive this experience really is. For us to view all our experiences from a more "normal" perspective is great. Believe me, it will be hard to get the image of the smiley face waving a flag out of my head.

So funny and appropriate.

17

Do Current WT writers review Early Russell Writings? Obviously not.

by objectivetruth in

jw
friends

from the book "the divine plan of the ages" - c.t.

russell 1886. as a forcible illustration we mention the sodomites.

surely, if we shall find the restitution of the sodomites clearly taught, we may feel satisfied of the truth of this glorious doctrine of restitution for all mankind, spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets.... unto the jews of capernaum he said, "if the mighty works which have been done in thee had been done in sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Make Lemonade

objectivetruth, Fernando, and Ding

These quotes build up like a resevoir of knowledge. Very helpful to identify who the writers and leadership really are. In my opinion, these quotes show an intent to mislead the readers. Also, the reactions that are dismissive or even accusatory show a lack of conviction. These opinions are in the form of a broad brush, but the more one sees the pattern, the more one can pick it out. At first I could not believe that a writer of the publications would be intentionally deceptive. With posts of information like this, I now have conviction that there are many examples of intentional deception.

punkofnice

Your research and posts helped me. That does matter to me and I will always be grateful for your efforts.

Keep the faith.

126

This is my first post

by Make Lemonade in

i wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.

there are resources here that are deep.

like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?

Make Lemonade

My first "attempted" shunning was yesterday.

I was in line at the Post Office. One of three people waiting. A sister who knows me very well was one of the two other people in line. From my viewpoint, she was ignoring me, yet there is the benefit of the doubt. So I took my turn in line and finished what I came to do. The sister finished just after I did. It gave me enough time to go to the exit door and open it for her. She tried the entrance door, but for some reason could not manage to get out.

Her actions looked to me like a nervous trapped mouse. She decided to go out the exit door that I was still holding open. So far, she did not make eye contact or say anything to me. After she went out the door, and we walked a few steps I said, "hi _____, how are you?" She stopped and looked right at me and said, "Oh I did not notice it was you, I am fine". So I smiled back at her and said, "Good". Then I saw that she was headed toward her van.

Inside, I could see "the car group". In my mind I thought, "great more trapped mice". Without hesitation, I went to the front of the van and looked thru the windshield. In the passenger seat was another sister who I know very well. She was wearing sunglasses, so I could not look into her eyes. I could see the frown on her face.

Looking at that frown, I started waving and saying, "How are you?" Only after I saw the frown turn to a slight smile did I stop waving, and said "bye".

To me the waving, greeting, opening the door, etc. shows that I am not controlled by their injustice to me. After all, I was D.F.'d for "giving testimony in opposition to the WT" and speaking "abusively about the glorious ones". Those are not valid charges. For me to submit to the shunning, would be to act like a beat dog that is in submission to the "glorious ones". What a joke that would be! Sharing this with you all makes me feel liberated and free of guilt.

This dates me, but seems so appropriate: "Works for me!"

14

Fear leads to becoming uneducated

by Still Totally ADD in

jw
friends

the other day my wife and i listen to a talk about making the planet and it's people better.

one of the things the speaker brought out was on education.

she brought out studies show that fear causes a person to keep from learning.

Make Lemonade

Still Totally ADD: Wow! That is some experience. Very happy you could survive that. It is so encouraging to see you share your expeirences so others can be helped. You might not ever know how many will read about you and gain freedom. Perhaps their first step towards a happier life. A life without the intellectual prison bonds.

Good for you!